Where does the AOC apply?

The four Organic Laws of The United States of America are discussed here.
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Geod Manson
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Where does the AOC apply?

#1

Post by Geod Manson »

Dr Rivera has made the point that the first two Organic laws only apply to The United States of America, and;
The second two Organic laws only apply to the United States.

I think that may actually be incorrect.

After reading through all of the organic laws (again and again, and again, and again)
The DOI is obviously applicable to the 13 Colonies that became The United States of America once they fought for and became free from England and the king thereof.

It's apparent that the AOC was written for The United States of America, and the territory within the exterior boundaries of those States called the United States, as
"provided also that no State shall be deprived of territory for the benefit of the United States."

The AOC was only applicable to the territories that were within the exterior boundaries of those States. That was called "the United States"
The Northwest territories(NWT) had not yet been abdicated by the king and by the treaty of Paris until 03 SEP 1783.(so of course the AOC did not apply to the NWT)

So when United States is mentioned in the AOC it is referring to the "United States in Congress and only applied to those territories that were within the exterior boundaries of each of the original States of The United States of America.
And never applied(and still doesn't)apply to all of the other land that was not territory.

So what I am saying is that the DOI only applied to The United States of America. and;

The AOC of November 15,1777, the 1787 ordinance and the Constitution of 1787, all three of them only applied to "territory or other property belonging to the United States". (never applied to the Privately owned lands and all public easements)

The Ordinance of 1787 clearly states "ORDINANCE OF 1787: THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENT
[THE CONFEDERATE CONGRESS, JULY 13, 1787]
An Ordinance for the government of the territory of
the United States northwest of the river Ohio
"

The Ordinance and the Constitution applied to the Northwest Territories. And later when new territories were acquired, the same criteria applied to each of the newly acquired territories to become "States of the United States"


Florida was not ceded to the United States until 1819
The Louisiana purchase was in 1803, and;
Maine was "admitted to the Union" in 1820,
The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was in 1848

"State of California" was once part of California. Territory that is ceded to The United States of America by the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo July 4, 1848. Parcels of this land granted or sold in fee simple become, and remain, part and parcel of the Sovereign, Free and Independent State of the Confederacy, California, on July 25, 1845 when the remaining land (territory)is admitted into the Union of States of United States as “State of California,” for which proprietary written laws still apply.
All privately owned land and; public easements within the exterior boundaries of California. Is Not under the “territorial Jurisdiction” of the “State of California” or the "United States". and;
is the same in all of the other States and States of_______________.)

Geod Manson
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Re:"the resolutions of the 23d of April, 1784,"

#2

Post by Geod Manson »

Here is a document I have never read before. today. :oops: One might want to read it.

https://www.loc.gov/resource/bdsdcc.13301/?st=gallery

"the resolutions of the 23d of April, 1784," (23d of April >July 13th)

I don't now why I have never looked this up before??? Have you? :?:

It's mentioned at the end of the ORDINANCE OF 1787: THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENT
"Be it ordained by the authority aforesaid, That
the resolutions of the 23d of April, 1784, relative
to the subject of this ordinance, be, and the
same are hereby, repealed, and declared null and
void.
Done by the United States, in Congress assembled, the 13th day of July, in the year of our
Lord 1787, and of their sovereignty and independence the twelfth. "
It's good to know what they replaced.
It helps me to fill in some blanks. :idea:

By first reading the "resolutions of the 23d of April, 1784,", Then reading through
the "ORDINANCE OF 1787: THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENT
[THE CONFEDERATE CONGRESS, JULY 13, 1787]
An Ordinance for the government of the territory of
the United States northwest of the river Ohio" Again.

I can see why they wanted to replace that resolution, It was to revealing > Indians?

Not only are they perpetrating that the AOC was replaced by the Constitution.
They did put it right out there in plain sight?
They're just leaving it up to ones to read :roll: :oops: Did I miss a memo?

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Re: Where does the AOC apply?

#3

Post by Logos »

Geod Manson wrote:
7 months ago
It's apparent that the AOC was written for The United States of America, and the territory within the exterior boundaries of those States called the United States, as
"provided also that no State shall be deprived of territory for the benefit of the United States."

The AOC was only applicable to the territories that were within the exterior boundaries of those States. That was called "the United States"
The Northwest territories(NWT) had not yet been abdicated by the king and by the treaty of Paris until 03 SEP 1783.(so of course the AOC did not apply to the NWT)

So when United States is mentioned in the AOC it is referring to the "United States in Congress and only applied to those territories that were within the exterior boundaries of each of the original States of The United States of America.
And never applied(and still doesn't)apply to all of the other land that was not territory.

So what I am saying is that the DOI only applied to The United States of America. and;

The AOC of November 15,1777, the 1787 ordinance and the Constitution of 1787, all three of them only applied to "territory or other property belonging to the United States". (never applied to the Privately owned lands and all public easements)
From my reading of it, some of the AOC does bear upon the sovereign States in a way that doesn't impinge upon those States' sovereignty, e.g., Articles II & III. While it does state what can be done with free State territory ceded/sold to United States and so forth, near the beginning it also describes how the sovereign States and the free people thereon will relate to each other, e.g., the Article IV guarantee of people's freedom of movement from (what I think is) State to State that we invoke in the TRAFFIC doc; I'm not sure the Founders specifically thought of that guarantee as also referring to territorial States--I doubt it would have been argued that it didn't--perhaps because territorial State status was meant to be temporary because it was assumed and intended that territorial States would eventually be inducted as full-fledged States of the perpetual Union on an equal footing as the original 13.

From what I'm seeing, before the Constitution the AOC was the "law of the land" for U.S. territory within the exterior boundaries of the original States. However, upon ratification the Constitution supplanted both the NWO and the relevant parts of the AOC as the "law of the land" for all U.S. territory, everywhere. Therefore, I'm inclined to agree with the good Dr.'s assertion that the AOC (the non-U.S. territory related parts, that is) now only applies to the free land of the Confederacy and the people thereon. As such, that oft-cited court case which ruled that the AOC was done away with is correct--just not in the way most people believe.

I disagree with his assertion that the DOI only applies to The United States of America. Two tenets of the DOI are (a) government must obtain consent of the governed, and (b) men getting to "lord" over other men by virtue of being bestowed titles or what-not is now forbidden.

True, the DOI, like the AOC, is not adjudicated, nor does it need to be--it is what it is. We see tenet (a) upheld in that most everything they do to us requires our consent, e.g., to be the equivalent of a subject in a monarchy one must voluntarily apply for and take the oath for admission to citizenship. For tenet (b) the missing 13th Amendment tried to do away with titles of nobility, and though many lawyers like to affix the title of "Esquire" to their name, anyone can do the same and the title has no legal bearing here. Though the territorial legal Matrix doesn't openly recognize the DOI, it's tenets appear to have been restated and are respected and enforced.

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Re: Re:"the resolutions of the 23d of April, 1784,"

#4

Post by Logos »

Geod Manson wrote:
7 months ago
I can see why they wanted to replace that resolution, It was to revealing > Indians?

Not only are they perpetrating that the AOC was replaced by the Constitution.
They did put it right out there in plain sight?
They're just leaving it up to ones to read :roll: :oops: Did I miss a memo?
I'm not sure how it was too revealing re Indians; it mentions purchasing land from them.

I see that it was describing creating States within the original States and taxing the people thereon. Apparently they thought of doing that last part before the NWO was enacted. Congress was right to repeal those resolutions.

Thanks for digging this up!

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